Vee ([info]evenpr) wrote,
@ 2002-07-09 15:11:00
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from TIME
sure, i could quote some intelligent voice of dissent amongst the ruckus that is the aftermath of 9/11, but sometimes it's just fun to laugh at flag-bearin', gun-totin', SUV-drivin' americans.

"As I read of the plans for rebuilding on the site where the World Trade Center stood, I wondered what has happened to the American spirit that built those magnificant structures. I hope it is not a casualty of the terrorists' attack. My vision is for a single, taller, 125-story tower. The top floor could be a special, quiet shrine, closer than even the Twin Towers were to heaven. This idea would honor the memories of all involved, within the framework of a true rebirth of a financial powerhouse. Come on, New York, come on, America. It is time to rebuild bigger and better than before!"

--Steve Gonto, Savannah, Ga. (big shock there), Time, June 14 02, Letters

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south of heaven
[info]archiedavis
2002-07-09 12:21 pm UTC (link)
what baffles me most is the christer spin on 9/11.

near my desk at work there still sits a crude child's drawing.
well, at least i hope its a child'd drawing, which shows a large mushroom cloud issuing up from the world trade centers, filled with all manner of spirits, with jesus, arms outstretched behind it...

how can these people find god's mercy in such a tragedy?
if god was so kind and caring, why didnt he KEEP THESE PEOPLE FROM DYING IN THE FIRST PLACE!

i was hoping that the majority would have the tact not to use this as an attempt at lobbying their cause, but i guess i had to much faith in them.

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Re: south of heaven
[info]evenpr
2002-07-09 02:47 pm UTC (link)
from the movie indictment: the mcmartin trial:

"how could have let this happen to us?"
"oh, don't blame god. what happened to us was entirely the work of people. god wasn't let in on it."

not that i have any lean towards a conscious, controlling higher power, but i liked that quote, and your post reminded me of it.

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Re: south of heaven
[info]bodhissatvaubu
2002-07-10 08:14 am UTC (link)
It is interesting how some people need religion to cope with tragedy. I remember one Christian woman saying that she couldn't imagine anybody not believing in God because, if she didn't, life would have no meaning for her. I'm sure religion was initially conceived in tragedy: how can I keep my crops from failing again? how can I stop this plague? Well, if you kill five goats, it can be all be prevented. And, if it isn't, well, God has a reason for doing it, so you just have to accept the loss. Of course, the concept of an "Illusion of Control" isn't new, but it never ceases to fascinate me.

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[info]archiedavis
2002-07-10 03:27 pm UTC (link)
i think most of the religions of the world were driven, like you mentioned by need.
as well as fear, and wonder.

the gods more than not being just projected psychological drives.

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Re: south of heaven
[info]evenpr
2002-07-12 09:50 am UTC (link)
likewise. i am in such a news vaccuum, i have no idea what's going on, i stick to reading about what interests me - which does not include religion - and i think because of that, every time i do catch a glimpse of paradigms as different from my own as this particular one, i am floored by the strength of mindless faith. and hey - they all could be right and i wrong, who knows, eh? it just always fascinates me when people so strongly believe in something that to me is nothing but utter bullshit ;). but again - that's just my perspective, and they have theirs, and probably see mine as utter bullshit... but i'm just blathering at this point, forgive me.

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"Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine."
[info]bodhissatvaubu
2002-07-15 06:13 am UTC (link)
hahaha, yeah. I'm just glad I have a few Christian friends who respect my opinions. That's the thing that really gets me: it's cool to have faith in something, but why do some Christians feel like they have to "save" us? Damn! I've actually had to run away from those people :0)

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Re: "Jesus died for somebody's sins, but not mine."
[info]evenpr
2002-07-18 09:15 am UTC (link)
lol - touche, same here!
i went to high school in a largely catholic neighborhood - that was scary.
but you're right - as long as they can respect others' opinions, i can handle having discussions with them :p.

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[info]goliardhoungan
2002-07-09 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Truth be told, this was sort of my reaction, too. But I'm like that. Tell me I can't do something and I'll try to do it better. Of course, then I read somewhere that a building becomes totally inefficient after something like forty-eight floors, so I figured pulling the hydra on this one wasn't the best option. Still, there are marvels in design that don't require massive height... safety, energy efficiency, aesthetics... I guess I still think we should build there again, but not just another old-American phallus. It was this kind of penis waving that caused the world to hate us in the first place.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, the pile of rubble in lower Manhattan is America's collective angry inch. (Even if it's cleared away by now. Hee.)

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Re:
[info]evenpr
2002-07-09 02:49 pm UTC (link)
heheh.
and i'm not saying there's anything wrong with such a reaction - it's just very american, that's all.

and again - nothing wrong with that... it's just so un-me that sometimes i have to wonder where people are coming from, you know?

angry inch, touche. that was a great analogy.

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[info]goliardhoungan
2002-07-09 05:47 pm UTC (link)
I don't know, I think it is a subspecies of a sentiment that is essential for a good radical. I mean, you're not building skyscrapers, but it would be analagous to up and quitting City Year when you got sick (which, sadly, is the only event in your life that is fresh in my mind, so if the analogy doesn't match so well, I have nothing else to choose from). Anyway, I'm basically just playing devil's advocate right now, so stop me whenever I get out of line.

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[info]girl_king
2002-07-09 06:38 pm UTC (link)
I already emailed you about this, but just to add. I'm so unAmerican, I'm planning to get a calico cat to protect me from the wrath of Ashkroft. So, I find this amusing... yeah... penis-waving. Some comedian, was it...Will something? Help me out here... used to do this bit about how the Gulf war was all Bush and Saddam arguing over who had a bigger d**k (missile power).

They could make a reality tv show about it...see who can build the biggest WTC the fastest, or something, only there has to be a way to get sex into the picture... hmmm

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Re:
[info]evenpr
2002-07-12 09:46 am UTC (link)
heheheh. i missed that routine. i'm sure it was great. it's the whole suv/loud motorcycle complex, as far as i'm concerned. everyone's trying to show off the large penises they may or may not have. it's fairly absurd. but then it's easy for me to say that, considering a) i don't share that mentality and b) i don't have a penis.

great idea for a show!! you ought to forward that onto fox - they'd probably buy it from you for a hundred million trillion dollars!

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